Antonio Rudiger

[Brutos]

And you know these two things to be fact exactly how?  Are you really an insider, one of the club's higher echelon staff?  Board member, perhaps?  Senior coaching staff?  I don't think so.

I think you are just making up bo**ocks to suit your very limited agenda, and it'[s getting a bit boring now.  You and the other f**kwits got what you wanted, got the manager sacked and so now you gotta let it go.

You're sounding a bit like all those brexit bigots who "won" their great victory and now keep on fighting the same xenophobic arguments over and over again, refusing to own the debacle that it is.

What the hell are you talking about wanted Lampard sacked show me one post where I wanted Lampard sacked.

Thing is too may fans getting triggered and in their feels because it's lampard logical thinking goes out the window just like brexit you know when emotions takes over. 

You guys are so in your bloody feels with lampard f**k me

He's a limited manager who has limited range it's hard to accept but it is what it is and even with that I wanted him to continue to see if he could turn it around obviously the board didn't think he could and he got sack the genius IQ, brilliant managerial mindno great man management  didn't shine through when it matters so......

 

[RMH]

Come on, you can't just believe reports you want to believe. It's all bo**ocks as far as we know. I mean yeah, it's obvious he wanted to move those players on for sure, but there's more too it than that, finding the right buyers was extremely difficult during the summer, hardly anyone but us was buying, especially the smaller clubs. 

And yet some of you choose to believe those reports that Frank Lampard was mismanaging and not talking to the senior/not-favourite players ?

 

[Slojo]

And yet some of you choose to believe those reports that Frank Lampard was mismanaging and not talking to the senior/not-favourite players ?

"some of you" I believe no such thing, that right there is a complete strawman. 

 

 

[RMH]

"some of you" I believe no such thing, that right there is a complete strawman. 

 

OK, I apologise then, I understood your post as taking Brutos side, who is clearly believing some reports and not others.

 

[Brutos]

Their is a bias and people get into their emotions and feels to the point they start abusing players wanting players shot believing one side of the reports but te other side that doesn't favor them it's a lie. 

Two sides to all stories and the truth is in the middle!!!!

And when it comes to feels with Lampard get over it it's done and if I make you get into your feelings because of Lampard well f**k your feelings. 

I  have been quiet polite while getting called names frequently so f**k your feels from here on out.

 

[Slojo]

OK, I apologise then, I understood your post as taking Brutos side, who is clearly believing some reports and not others.

I'm not taking his side, I just disagreed with what Dan said. People need to stop taking all this inside info as if its gospel. Conveniently people do it when it suits them. We don't know the inner details unfortunately. 

I think it's evident that Lampard lost the players, but for what reason I don't know, as far as his managerial rating goes I would give him a good one considering his first season here was a success. And I thought he handled youth integration and senior players well enough. 

One thing though, I do not criticise Frank on the basis of what some journalist on Twitter says. As much as I dislike Rudiger as a person and a player, I still didn't go there because there's no evidence. 

 

[RMH]

I'm not taking his side, I just disagreed with what Dan said. People need to stop taking all this inside info as if its gospel. Conveniently people do it when it suits them. We don't know the inner details unfortunately. 

I think it's evident that Lampard lost the players, but for what reason I don't know, as far as his managerial rating goes I would give him a good one considering his first season here was a success. And I thought he handled youth integration and senior players well enough. 

One thing though, I do not criticise Frank on the basis of what some journalist on Twitter says. As much as I dislike Rudiger as a person and a player, I still didn't go there because there's no evidence. 

I agree in this with you, though I don't think he lost the players. Maybe some of them were not happy (I don't have any doubt that Alonso wasn't happy with Frank), but I don't think that the whole squad were against him. We'll probably never know.

 

[Ernie_blue]

I dont blame Lampard for wanting to move on Jorginho, Rudiger and Alonso. Dont rate any of them and there's better options in the squad. Lampard mostly played a back 4 and Alonso is terrible in a back 4, plus his behaviour against West Brom was bang out of order. 

 

[Slojo]

I agree in this with you, though I don't think he lost the players. Maybe some of them were not happy (I don't have any doubt that Alonso wasn't happy with Frank), but I don't think that the whole squad were against him. We'll probably never know.

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

 

[coco]

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

A few butt hurt players, not the majority, that's all it takes. They don't play for the fans, they pretend to love the club and kiss the badge, but were not daft.

 

[Slojo]

A few butt hurt players, not the majority, that's all it takes. They don't play for the fans, they pretend to love the club and kiss the badge, but were not daft.

I wouldn't even say that, who was playing well after Leeds besides Thiago Silva? It was only Silva who can say he performed and was playing well. Mount definitely tried and worked his socks off but even Mount was quite average for numerous games, probably doesn't help with the fact that everyone else was playing sh*t along side him. 

The likes of Pulisic, Ziyech, Kovacic, James, Chilwell, Abraham, Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Jorginho, Zouma, Kante were just sh*t after the Leeds game. Worst I've ever seen Pulisic, maybe injuries can be taken into account since both him and Ziyech were rushed back, but still... 

Collectively the players let the manager down, the manager has to take some responsibility but it's a shame to see so many players play like sh*t almost instantly. I can't tell if it was confidence or downright laziness or what, the ambition was just sucked dry, they stopped trying to get the ball forward, they stopped making runs, they were just devoid of ideas... The contrast between of November to December is staggering really. I would love to know what actually happened. 

 

[Imran_CFC]

I wouldn't even say that, who was playing well after Leeds besides Thiago Silva? It was only Silva who can say he performed and was playing well. Mount definitely tried and worked his socks off but even Mount was quite average for numerous games, probably doesn't help with the fact that everyone else was playing sh*t along side him. 

The likes of Pulisic, Ziyech, Kovacic, James, Chilwell, Abraham, Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Jorginho, Zouma, Kante were just sh*t after the Leeds game. Worst I've ever seen Pulisic, maybe injuries can be taken into account since both him and Ziyech were rushed back, but still... 

Collectively the players let the manager down, the manager has to take some responsibility but it's a shame to see so many players play like sh*t almost instantly. I can't tell if it was confidence or downright laziness or what, the ambition was just sucked dry, they stopped trying to get the ball forward, they stopped making runs, they were just devoid of ideas... The contrast between of November to December is staggering really. I would love to know what actually happened. 

I think it's very lazy to say so & so was playing sh*t, as you've pointed out Pulisic was returning from injury and Ziyech only returned against City and even at that point it seemed like he was rushed back (Somewhat confirmed by Tuchel on the weekend). Chilwell & James both were out together with injury with rumors coming out Reece might need surgery, with any injury scare players tend to play within themselves upon return and this impacted their performance.

Reports have come out that Kante was also not 100% fit and he has hardly featured since the City game and Werner & Havertz have both struggled pretty much from the get go. I think people just want to put all the blame on Lampard's doorstep without actually taking into account we've got in 6 first teamers and he was having to integrate them without a pre-season and even then the downturn happened during the most congested period in the season. we played 11 games in 5-6 weeks.

The truth is confidence was low and without any real time between games it created a snowball effect, we were not the only ones Liverpool suffered from a similar impact where they appeared completely lost and guess what the moment they had some rest and recuperation the performances in the last 2 games picked up again. Sadly our board placed the blame in the lap of Lampard and sacked him.

 

[Slojo]

I think it's very lazy to say so & so was playing sh*t, as you've pointed out Pulisic was returning from injury and Ziyech only returned against City and even at that point it seemed like he was rushed back (Somewhat confirmed by Tuchel on the weekend). Chilwell & James both were out together with injury with rumors coming out Reece might need surgery, with any injury scare players tend to play within themselves upon return and this impacted their performance.

Reports have come out that Kante was also not 100% fit and he has hardly featured since the City game and Werner & Havertz have both struggled pretty much from the get go. I think people just want to put all the blame on Lampard's doorstep without actually taking into account we've got in 6 first teamers and he was having to integrate them without a pre-season and even then the downturn happened during the most congested period in the season. we played 11 games in 5-6 weeks.

The truth is confidence was low and without any real time between games it created a snowball effect, we were not the only ones Liverpool suffered from a similar impact where they appeared completely lost and guess what the moment they had some rest and recuperation the performances in the last 2 games picked up again. Sadly our board placed the blame in the lap of Lampard and sacked him.

Some valid points, but that's a lot of excuses and little responsibility. 

 

[Imran_CFC]

Some valid points, but that's a lot of excuses and little responsibility. 

I am making excuses for a club legend like Lampard which is understandable but I don't understand fans making excuses for faceless executives who fire Managers at the first sign of trouble.

 

[RMH]

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

Well, these performances have come at the period when there has been more congestion of games and one could argue that energy levels were getting low. We are now playing every more days, so players have more time to recover. Also, some players got injured or were coming out of injuries. I'm not saying there wasn't some disagreement from some players, but probably 2 or 3, not more. But, as you said in your earlier comment, we can't know for sure it's all chitchat.

 

[Slojo]

Well, these performances have come at the period when there has been more congestion of games and one could argue that energy levels were getting low. We are now playing every more days, so players have more time to recover. Also, some players got injured or were coming out of injuries. I'm not saying there wasn't some disagreement from some players, but probably 2 or 3, not more. But, as you said in your earlier comment, we can't know for sure it's all chitchat.

It's obviously not ideal and there are many factors, but still, many other clubs did well over that period, so we can't keep making excuses for it. The players were downright piss poor. 

 

[RMH]

It's obviously not ideal and there are many factors, but still, many other clubs did well over that period, so we can't keep making excuses for it. The players were downright piss poor. 

Yes, and some other teams had been or are being now piss poor. That players were bad does not mean that they did not play for the manager. As already said, it’s all speculation. Were we bad? Yes. Were players bad? Yes. Were players not happy with the manager? Probably a couple. Was the majority of the team against the manager? Very unlikely.

 

[yorkleyblue]

The performances after Leeds were some of the worst performances I've seen in this club, something definitely happened. The way they just turned off and let an Arsenal C team beat them was just disgusting to watch. 

The players were not playing for the manager, I'm not saying Franks purely at fault for that, this is something in the Chelsea DNA, they've done it for many managers, it's just a shame it happened so soon for Frank. They clearly lacked respect for him to play the way they did. 

That first bit you can't be serious. Most of those matches weren't even the worst this season.  And I know you have an agenda, but to morph an Arsenal side with 2 or 3 first team players missing into an "Arsenal C team" is just disrespectful to our team.

.......................................The likes of Pulisic, Ziyech, Kovacic, James, Chilwell, Abraham, Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Jorginho, Zouma, Kante were just sh*t after the Leeds game. Worst I've ever seen Pulisic, maybe injuries can be taken into account since both him and Ziyech were rushed back, but still... 

Collectively the players let the manager down, the manager has to take some responsibility but it's a shame to see so many players play like sh*t almost instantly..............................................

It's obviously not ideal and there are many factors, but still, many other clubs did well over that period, so we can't keep making excuses for it. The players were downright piss poor. 

But you were one of the most vociferous in here about getting rid of the manager.

 

[dansubrosa]

I wasn’t saying the 3 players I’ve mentioned have fallen out with Frank and caused tension etc. I think Lampard’s relationship with the board have deteriorated when he couldn’t trim the squad down as he’d have liked.

I wish he’d got it his way, Alonso, Rudiger and Jorginho gone by now would be brilliant.

Of course it’s not gospel from the journalists but I find that one reasonable and makes sense. Jorginho, Alonso and Rudiger haven’t really played much this season for Frank.

 

[Imran_CFC]

Shifting the topic back to Rudiger, I really like him in a back 3 especially when we have Alonso playing LWB because Rudigers pace brings a little balance on the left and even if he commits a brainfart covering Alonso we have 2 CB's to provide protection.

I believe majority of our experienced defenders prefer playing in a wingback system, Alonso, Rudiger and Azpi all are far more comfortable in a back 3 then a back 4, even Thiago can operate more like a regista and step into midfield more often when in a back 3. (Especially when Jorginho is not in the 11 and Kante comes in).