Dusan Vlahovic

[dermott]

It’s Serie A

From an Engish-language Milan journal after Inter tonked Milan 5-1 in the derby yesterday:

Pulisic (4/10): Non-existent, really, in the attacking phase with zero to offer and always laying it off to the nearest man. He couldn’t handle the derby pressure and must do better.

 

[Sheva]

It’s Serie A

Never understood this excuse, if Oshimen signed tomorrow everyone would drop their pants. It’s flavour of the month and nothing more.

Also maybe it’s not where they come from and it’s more the environment they sign into that causes the player to perform poorly. 

 

[All Barco no bite]

Never understood this excuse, if Oshimen signed tomorrow everyone would drop their pants. It’s flavour of the month and nothing more.

Also maybe it’s not where they come from and it’s more the environment they sign into that causes the player to perform poorly. 

Serie A is one of the slowest, more boring leagues about. Played with little to no intensity. 

 

[Sheva]

Serie A is one of the slowest, more boring leagues about. Played with little to no intensity. 

Premier league clubs are still shopping there and also big european clubs like Bayern.

I think it's such a weak excuse to say it's the league and we should look closer to home and maybe think it's the environment we have here that's not giving the best opportunity to get the best out of the players we invest in. Constant changing of the manager is likely a good enough reason.

We have signed players from Brazil and all over europe from far weaker leagues, maybe scouts look at the player rather than the league they are in.

 

[All Barco no bite]

Premier league clubs are still shopping there and also big european clubs like Bayern.

I think it's such a weak excuse to say it's the league and we should look closer to home and maybe think it's the environment we have here that's not giving the best opportunity to get the best out of the players we invest in. Constant changing of the manager is likely a good enough reason.

We have signed players from Brazil and all over europe from far weaker leagues, maybe scouts look at the player rather than the league they are in.

More players struggle from Italy than do well. 

RLC, Pulisic, Giroud, Tomori all deemed surplus to requirements are some of the star players in that league. 

City haven't bought a player from that league in 7 windows, Liverpool for 9 windows (other than Arthur on loan who didn't get played).

Obviously there are the occasional outlier but all in all the league absolutely stinks. I was there in February to watch Como and the Milan Derby and the fans are great, the football not so much. Como in Serie B was honestly like watching my local team in Northern Prem.

 

[Sheva]

More players struggle from Italy than do well. 

RLC, Pulisic, Giroud, Tomori all deemed surplus to requirements are some of the star players in that league. 

City haven't bought a player from that league in 7 windows, Liverpool for 9 windows (other than Arthur on loan who didn't get played).

Obviously there are the occasional outlier but all in all the league absolutely stinks. I was there in February to watch Como and the Milan Derby and the fans are great, the football not so much. Como in Serie B was honestly like watching my local team in Northern Prem.

RLC - Had many injuries here and never had a big run of games apart from maybe under Sarri when he arguably looked one of the better players in the squad. He was always in and out of the team.

Pulisic - He was just as talented as some of the players we bought now and with injuries and being constantly in and out of the team.

Tomori - Probably sold him to early and was never allowed to learn from his mistakes.

Giroud - I think he done the business for us and its likely we sold him too early

The one factor to me that hinders the development of the first 3 players is the constant change of managers, environment and ideas. How many managers did Pulisic have here? 4 or 5? One manager comes in and likes him and then another comes in and doesn't like him.

I think players are talented from Serie A and have enough quality to play in this league,  they are international players. It's just we've been burned in the past because of situations like the attitude of the player (Lukaku) and also the constant changing of managers.

It's a similar situation as Salah and De Bruyne as the manager did not trust them at the time to do well here because we had to win now. There's always been a pressure to do well from the get go here and if you don't you deemed not good enough. One went to Italy and the other went to Germany, both "weaker" leagues and they did well and have now come back to be the best players in the league.

We've spent silly amounts of money on players from Brazil, Ukraine, Holland, USA, Germany and I could go on and to me that just shows they look at the player rather than the league and it's up to the club to set up the right environment for them to come in and do well.

 

[dermott]

More players struggle from Italy than do well. 

RLC, Pulisic, Giroud, Tomori all deemed surplus to requirements are some of the star players in that league. 

City haven't bought a player from that league in 7 windows, Liverpool for 9 windows (other than Arthur on loan who didn't get played).

Obviously there are the occasional outlier but all in all the league absolutely stinks. I was there in February to watch Como and the Milan Derby and the fans are great, the football not so much. Como in Serie B was honestly like watching my local team in Northern Prem.

I stumbled across a Serie C match last night on Sky Calcio. Technically the equivalent of our League One but, cripes, it was ordinary. There are talented players in Serie A but it's hard to gauge their real standard when they are often playing against dross. The PL bottom three or four would tonk the Serie A equivalents.

 

[All Barco no bite]

RLC - Had many injuries here and never had a big run of games apart from maybe under Sarri when he arguably looked one of the better players in the squad. He was always in and out of the team.

Pulisic - He was just as talented as some of the players we bought now and with injuries and being constantly in and out of the team.

Tomori - Probably sold him to early and was never allowed to learn from his mistakes.

Giroud - I think he done the business for us and its likely we sold him too early

The one factor to me that hinders the development of the first 3 players is the constant change of managers, environment and ideas. How many managers did Pulisic have here? 4 or 5? One manager comes in and likes him and then another comes in and doesn't like him.

I think players are talented from Serie A and have enough quality to play in this league,  they are international players. It's just we've been burned in the past because of situations like the attitude of the player (Lukaku) and also the constant changing of managers.

It's a similar situation as Salah and De Bruyne as the manager did not trust them at the time to do well here because we had to win now. There's always been a pressure to do well from the get go here and if you don't you deemed not good enough. One went to Italy and the other went to Germany, both "weaker" leagues and they did well and have now come back to be the best players in the league.

We've spent silly amounts of money on players from Brazil, Ukraine, Holland, USA, Germany and I could go on and to me that just shows they look at the player rather than the league and it's up to the club to set up the right environment for them to come in and do well.

I can think of 5 players at a push that are probably good enough for a top prem side from that league

 

[Sheva]

I can think of 5 players at a push that are probably good enough for a top prem side from that league

Oshimen, Barella, Dybala, Leao, Maignan, Theo Hernandez, Bremer, Chiesa, Bastoni, Bennacar, Kvaratskhelia just off the top of my head. Most of those are 60-70m+ players and I think that's also a reason why clubs get put off is because Serie A clubs charge at a premium.

But let's say City sign some of those players, their squad is literally the perfect environment to develop and do well in. They have stable management and personal to bring the best out of the player. Everyone looked at Akanji and thought that's a back up signing and now he's one of their better players, he's not recreating that form if he signed for Utd instead.

It's a much higher success rate that those players who are all international players would do well in a better project than an unstable one.

You can say the same for players who have left us over the years and who have gone to premier league clubs and done well. Billy Gilmour is in much better environment now than he was at Chelsea. He has a manager that has faith in him and shows him trust, now he's flourishing, I was someone who was quick to judge him and did not think he was good enough to play at this level.

 

[Niall1905]

Oshimen, Barella, Dybala, Leao, Maignan, Theo Hernandez, Bremer, Chiesa, Bastoni, Bennacar, Kvaratskhelia just off the top of my head. Most of those are 60-70m+ players and I think that's also a reason why clubs get put off is because Serie A clubs charge at a premium.

But let's say City sign some of those players, their squad is literally the perfect environment to develop and do well in. They have stable management and personal to bring the best out of the player. Everyone looked at Akanji and thought that's a back up signing and now he's one of their better players, he's not recreating that form if he signed for Utd instead.

It's a much higher success rate that those players who are all international players would do well in a better project than an unstable one.

You can say the same for players who have left us over the years and who have gone to premier league clubs and done well. Billy Gilmour is in much better environment now than he was at Chelsea. He has a manager that has faith in him and shows him trust, now he's flourishing, I was someone who was quick to judge him and did not think he was good enough to play at this level.

The issue is, and its one that our owners are quickly having the learn to deal with, is that real football isn't like Fifa, where a player has a rating and they are that good. You simply buy the player and they are that good for you too. 

I get your point on having good environments for players to develop but I think its more than that. Some players settle in a country, some players are better at fitting in where they dont have to be the star, some players thrive being the star, some players hate a certain manager, some players love a certain manager. Theres a whole world of human psychology that goes into players being great. Yes the ability has to be there to an extent, but how its applied and used is a whole other world. 

My favourite example is Rudiger and the way he was just completely transformed by Tuchel. Tuchel's personality and approach to the game screamed that Rudiger would thrive. Tuchel took the animal that was in Rudiger and encouraged it, where others had tried to calm him down. I can imagine he would have done the same with someone like David Luiz. You can also say the same for some of Liverpool's squad in the period where they were keeping pace with City. Players like Robertson and Mane, Henderson and Van Dijk all bought in to Klopps game.

But for all of these who buy in, there are players that don't. Minamino is one for Liverpool, you could list numerous for Chelsea under Tuchel, Conte Mourinho, even in the squads that were successful. Even city have had players like Ferran Torres and Kalvin Phillips that didn't stick.

Its not as simply as to say, these players from Serie A would thrive under Pep or De Zerbi. They might, sure. But I would wager that a lot of their recruitment success is born from understanding the type of personality they need to feed into their culture. 

 

[Sheva]

The issue is, and its one that our owners are quickly having the learn to deal with, is that real football isn't like Fifa, where a player has a rating and they are that good. You simply buy the player and they are that good for you too. 

I get your point on having good environments for players to develop but I think its more than that. Some players settle in a country, some players are better at fitting in where they dont have to be the star, some players thrive being the star, some players hate a certain manager, some players love a certain manager. Theres a whole world of human psychology that goes into players being great. Yes the ability has to be there to an extent, but how its applied and used is a whole other world. 

My favourite example is Rudiger and the way he was just completely transformed by Tuchel. Tuchel's personality and approach to the game screamed that Rudiger would thrive. Tuchel took the animal that was in Rudiger and encouraged it, where others had tried to calm him down. I can imagine he would have done the same with someone like David Luiz. You can also say the same for some of Liverpool's squad in the period where they were keeping pace with City. Players like Robertson and Mane, Henderson and Van Dijk all bought in to Klopps game.

But for all of these who buy in, there are players that don't. Minamino is one for Liverpool, you could list numerous for Chelsea under Tuchel, Conte Mourinho, even in the squads that were successful. Even city have had players like Ferran Torres and Kalvin Phillips that didn't stick.

Its not as simply as to say, these players from Serie A would thrive under Pep or De Zerbi. They might, sure. But I would wager that a lot of their recruitment success is born from understanding the type of personality they need to feed into their culture. 

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

I never said that players from Serie A would be an instant success here, Im implying that it's a weak excuse that because they play in that league then they are not good enough to play in the premier league. What im trying to say is that we need to give them the best possible chance to do well here, especially if they are younger players.

Over the past few seasons we have not give players the best possible chance to do well here because we are unstable on and off the field.

 

[just]

Watching the AC Milan v Newcastle game. Oh my God! Rafa Leao. Brilliant skills to make an opportunity but the finish! Dear lord. Laughed so hard one of my tits fell off. He'd fit right in for us with that type of finishing.

 

[Scott Harris]

More players struggle from Italy than do well. 

RLC, Pulisic, Giroud, Tomori all deemed surplus to requirements are some of the star players in that league. 

City haven't bought a player from that league in 7 windows, Liverpool for 9 windows (other than Arthur on loan who didn't get played).

Obviously there are the occasional outlier but all in all the league absolutely stinks. I was there in February to watch Como and the Milan Derby and the fans are great, the football not so much. Como in Serie B was honestly like watching my local team in Northern Prem.

I always say that if you're going to sign a player from Italy, only go for the ones that have experience in other leagues and/or haven't spent more than 5 years playing there. They get too acclimatised to the league and struggle badly when moving to the Premier League. 

People will call me mad, but this is the reason why I never wanted us to sign Pirlo. He was a brilliant footballer, but I don't think for a second that he would have been able to dominate a midfield like he could in Italy. His whole game was built around Italian football.

I also always need to point out that I don't think one league is inferior to the other. It's just a clash of styles.

 

[Gol15]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

I never said that players from Serie A would be an instant success here, Im implying that it's a weak excuse that because they play in that league then they are not good enough to play in the premier league. What im trying to say is that we need to give them the best possible chance to do well here, especially if they are younger players.

Over the past few seasons we have not give players the best possible chance to do well here because we are unstable on and off the field.

A good player is good regardless of which league he comes from. Casadei came from Italy and the local talent that we had here prior is worse than him. Zakaria that was on loan played decently but had injury problems. Jorginho came here and was automatically a key player for us so even in our recent history it shows that our Italian signings have been good.

In all honesty, Tonali to Newcastle was a strong transfer, I knew he was going to be a good player a few years back and had we signed him instead of Lavia it would have been cheaper and we would be a stronger team right now.

 

[axman2526]

Dusan is a mute point. Is widely reported he did not want to come here.

 

[Sexyfootball]

Dusan is a mute point. Is widely reported he did not want to come here.

moot point  

 

[DarkMata]

A good player is good regardless of which league he comes from. Casadei came from Italy and the local talent that we had here prior is worse than him. Zakaria that was on loan played decently but had injury problems. Jorginho came here and was automatically a key player for us so even in our recent history it shows that our Italian signings have been good.

In all honesty, Tonali to Newcastle was a strong transfer, I knew he was going to be a good player a few years back and had we signed him instead of Lavia it would have been cheaper and we would be a stronger team right now.

Tonali has one good game and a MOTD highlights reel and he's the signing of the summer doesn't matter that he's been average to none existent in the games following.  Wish Chelsea players got so much leeway.  Some randoms on a Sky show who've probably only watch that MOTD highlight where comparing him to some of the best midfielders in the league already - please, if that's the case then Mudryk is up there with Salah due to his 10 minute cameo against Liverpool.  I'm not saying he's a bad player but the guys living of that one performance.  Lets judge who's got the better signing when they've both played at least, or maybe at the end of the season when they've played through a nice British winter.

 

[axman2526]

Once more linked with us.

Juve manager Motta does not want him, he is just about to turn 25. Could our sporting directors finally get us a striker?

 

[ducavis]

Once more linked with us.

Juve manager Motta does not want him, he is just about to turn 25. Could our sporting directors finally get us a striker?

Hell no! he is that bad that Motta would rather start a winger with no physical presence at No 9.  

 

[WhiteWall]

Once more linked with us.

Juve manager Motta does not want him, he is just about to turn 25. Could our sporting directors finally get us a striker?

We're not signing anyone now with the amount of time left in this window. Even if these clowns could contrive to get an agreement in place with any player in time they'd fck the paperwork up anyway.