Estêvão

[Sexyfootball]

Well I know which winger I'd pick if I wanted someone who was better defensively and provided more attacking threat LOL



Also quite amusing that the so-called "defensive" winger (Mr Neto) who was left on instead of Estevao was as culpable as anyone for poor positioning for the Merino goal, to the point that he actually backed away from where the ball went, despite having a great view of Merino earlier in the play. Also seemed oblivious to Noni behind him.

Cucurella understandably went nuts at him.

 

[axman2526]

I am guessing Estevao is chomping at the bit for the Leeds game.

For one because Cole is back and we saw before Estevao arrived their budding friendship and desire to team up. For another he will have known he was sacrificed for a better defensive winger in Garnacho when he had the excellent Calafiori begging for mercy.

Given Cole needs a start it should be the two of them plus garnacho vs Leeds given neto played the full 90 vs Arsenal. Could be gittens in place of garnacho i guess.

 

[bluelightening]

Nope, those changes at Utd, especially, stopped us having any attack possibility, effectively making us loose. So no, they were not made to win but, I suspect, not to loose. If you think that Maresca changed all attackers for defenders to win the game, then I can't really tell you much more.

That's my point. He wasnt left on the pitch because the needs for the team. Whether that works or not is on the manager but down to 10 men, you need everyone working defensively. Can we rely on stevo to do that job? Maresca doesnt think so, hence why he was subbed off.

That's not your argument though, you said he wasn't that good. Now your argument is that he isn't defensive enough?

He was our best attacker in that first half by far going forward.

Great... when we were 11v11... if he was good at the defensive side of the game he would have most likely been left on the pitch wouldnt he?

Arsenal would have been delighted to see Estevao subbed off at HT.

No doubt... but they would also have loved the fact we were down to 10 men and set up for the second half accordingly and did.

I'd also argue Sanchez had a mare in not coming for a cross inside the six-yard box over Neto being in the wrong place. That was keepers ball to punch or clean out the box all day long and win a free kick jumping with Morino. He was rooted on his line.

6 of us on five of them in those images, while James was a collusus, he's not picking anyone up and is marking space. Gusto isnt even goal side of Merino and is looking at him. Where are is fofana and chalobah, cucurella let the ball come into the box as well.

=========

Lets not forget, had he put his chance away that he ballooned into space, we would have possibly been 2-0 ahead by the time they scored their goal. That miss, regardless of what you think is simply a lack of composure. See Jackson thread last season - Its not a bad thing, he's young and will learn.... but does Cole Palmer lash that over from there? dont think he does.

Barca was a garnish to our league campaign and they played 60 mins at 10 men. Arsenal at home is the bread and butter of our season and we played 45 mins with 10 men.

Dont get me wrong love Stevo, but there's a lot more to come and improve from him. Im looking forward to it.

 

[All Barco no bite]

That's my point. He wasnt left on the pitch because the needs for the team. Whether that works or not is on the manager but down to 10 men, you need everyone working defensively. Can we rely on stevo to do that job? Maresca doesnt think so, hence why he was subbed off.

Great... when we were 11v11... if he was good at the defensive side of the game he would have most likely been left on the pitch wouldnt he?

No doubt... but they would also have loved the fact we were down to 10 men and set up for the second half accordingly and did.

I'd also argue Sanchez had a mare in not coming for a cross inside the six-yard box over Neto being in the wrong place. That was keepers ball to punch or clean out the box all day long and win a free kick jumping with Morino. He was rooted on his line.

6 of us on five of them in those images, while James was a collusus, he's not picking anyone up and is marking space. Gusto isnt even goal side of Merino and is looking at him. Where are is fofana and chalobah, cucurella let the ball come into the box as well.

=========

Lets not forget, had he put his chance away that he ballooned into space, we would have possibly been 2-0 ahead by the time they scored their goal. That miss, regardless of what you think is simply a lack of composure. See Jackson thread last season - Its not a bad thing, he's young and will learn.... but does Cole Palmer lash that over from there? dont think he does.

Barca was a garnish to our league campaign and they played 60 mins at 10 men. Arsenal at home is the bread and butter of our season and we played 45 mins with 10 men.

Dont get me wrong love Stevo, but there's a lot more to come and improve from him. Im looking forward to it.

Do you play attackers because they're good defensively or because they're creative geniuses? Would you ask Hazard to track his man?

What argument are you even making at this point? You said he wasn't very good. That was proven false. Now you saying he doesn't track his man?

 

[Imran_CFC]

Ten goal contributions for club and country in just 1,000 minutes is pretty decent for an 18-year-old.

Every player misses chances—it’s part of the game. Even Cole Palmer has missed absolute sitters, but no one questions his composure. The real struggles in front of goal were from guys like Werner and Jackson, and Estevão is nowhere near that level. I personally don't have any complaints so far.

 

[RMH]

Huh? Didn't Maresca replace Estevao with another winger?

Not against ManU, which is what I was referring to with my reply to Bluelightening comment, Jorgensen for Estevao, Tosin for Neto and Santos for Palmer, those were Maresca's subs after the send off and ManU's first goal.

 

[bluelightening]

Do you play attackers because they're good defensively or because they're creative geniuses? Would you ask Hazard to track his man?

What argument are you even making at this point? You said he wasn't very good. That was proven false. Now you saying he doesn't track his man?

Sorry if you dont graasp the basics of winning and losing and the margins in between... But...

Stevo didnt have an effect on the game and the chance he had was ballooned into orbit, was then subbed off to get a result, was sacrificed for others in the team game.

Football is a team game based on results. Not if a player you like is subbed on or off the field. Here's the rub. The manager thought we'd do better without him on the pitch, a decision sort of vindicated by the result that Stevo had no bearing on. So to answer your question, you bring players on to get results in a results business. (Maresca has got this wrong before but got it right on the weekend as we got a point) Understand the point now?

 

[Scott Harris]

I confirmed with NASA this morning the ball he shot is now in lower Earth orbit above New Zealand. ;-)

Look, I get the passion about the guy, but the hype around him is unreal, its like everyone is holding out for the second coming of Hazard of Zola, but to say he was our best player before being hooked after the red, didnt see that im afraid. I'm delighted hes a chelsea player and starting to do things on the pitch for us but that's where it ends, Palmer destroyed the league playing in his position. Its really great isnt it we have his talent because he's an entertainer and we all love those types of players... But that shot and others he's done this season just show how much development and filling out he still needs to do. Hopefully he'll be a bonkers player for us over the coming seasons.

Imagine the stink on here if it was Jackson, Enzo (regularly does close his eyes when shooting) or Neto who shot like he did against Arsenal... the meltdown would be epic on here... See last season's Jackson thread.

I didn't say he was our best player, I said he was our best attacker.

If Palmer was only given 135 minutes in 7 league games, do you think he would have destroyed the league playing in that position? I can answer that for you and it's a no, because Palmer played 165 minutes in our first 7 games and scored no goals. Do you think Palmer would have destroyed the league if the majority of his starts were disrupted by players getting sent off? Estevao has started 5 league games and in 3 of those games we had a red card. When Palmer scored his first league goal for us, he started the next 5 games. Estevao scores his first league goal, and he doesn't start a game for another 6. I think the comparison with Palmer has too many holes in it.

That shot and others? I don't see the problem with his shooting in all honesty, I think it's been fine.

I think the comparisons with Jackson, Enzo and Neto are ridiculous, especially Jackson. Jackson became so much of a net negative at times that he became unbearable to watch, so if he had missed a good chance, there would be more context as to why people would be more pissed at him. Estevao having two poor shots after 2 months of looking like the most gifted young player in world football is a very different situation, and not something I feel needs any negative attention or sudden calls for us to calm down on the hype.

 

[dkw]

Amazing to see anyone zero in on him because of one bad shot, hes 18 and scored in each of his last 7 games for us and Brazil, theres a reason hes being given more leeway than others for gods sake.

But then we are all group thinkers and not amazing individual brainers I suppose..

 

[All Barco no bite]

Sorry if you dont graasp the basics of winning and losing and the margins in between... But...

Stevo didnt have an effect on the game and the chance he had was ballooned into orbit, was then subbed off to get a result, was sacrificed for others in the team game.

Football is a team game based on results. Not if a player you like is subbed on or off the field. Here's the rub. The manager thought we'd do better without him on the pitch, a decision sort of vindicated by the result that Stevo had no bearing on. So to answer your question, you bring players on to get results in a results business. (Maresca has got this wrong before but got it right on the weekend as we got a point) Understand the point now?

A lot of typing to say nothing.

You said he wasn't our best player in the first half, many people have showed you evidence he was. You've judged him on one shot rather than the whole half. Its not our fault you either watch the match with your eyes closed or only watch the highlight videos after.

Neto didn't track his man for the Arsenal goal, perhaps had he kept Esteavo on, not only would we have created more but also not conceded.

I'm glad you're happy with a draw though, i personally would rather see us win. I guess that's the difference in standards though.

 

[bluelightening]

FFS... some proper melts and selective reading going on.

Ive not said Estevao is bad, Ive said the complete opposite. Worth noting young players lack composure at points during games and it would appear people cant see the humour in the posting about his shot being in lower orbit...

He's far from the finished article yet... he isnt better than palmer either, but I fully expect him to reach his level.

A lot of typing to say nothing.

You said he wasn't our best player in the first half, many people have showed you evidence he was. You've judged him on one shot rather than the whole half. Its not our fault you either watch the match with your eyes closed or only watch the highlight videos after.

Neto didn't track his man for the Arsenal goal, perhaps had he kept Esteavo on, not only would we have created more but also not conceded.

I'm glad you're happy with a draw though, i personally would rather see us win. I guess that's the difference in standards though.

Perhaps/ if/ but also not conceded... all your own value judgements, I dont share them so lay off the insults. He was subbed to get a result for the team or are you hoping hte club renames itself to Estevao FC, glad your a fanboy.

In terms of result, yes, delighted with a point down to 10 men at home - we didnt lose and our league position is maintained and we get to continue putting pressure on the Gooners going into the Xmas season) Clearly I watched the match with my eyes open as I saw him balloon the chance... It was so bad I laughed out loud.... It led me to posting here that he isnt the finished artilce that you have taken so personally, its a little tragic.

I dont think he was our best player first half, Caicedo was until he was sent off. That's the reason Arsenal looked nullified in midfield.

Neto didnt track his man and neither did any of the defenders tasked with keeping the ball out of the net. It was a horror show goal to concede and I point the finger at Sanchez for not catching or punching a ball that was headed about 2 feet inside the six yard box. You want to blame Neto for it go for it but I doubt Estevao would have done much differently either but perhaps he might as you clearly think hes the messiah...

 

[All Barco no bite]

FFS... some proper melts and selective reading going on.

Ive not said Estevao is bad, Ive said the complete opposite. Worth noting young players lack composure at points during games and it would appear people cant see the humour in the posting about his shot being in lower orbit...

He's far from the finished article yet... he isnt better than palmer either, but I fully expect him to reach his level.

Perhaps/ if/ but also not conceded... all your own value judgements, I dont share them so lay off the insults. He was subbed to get a result for the team or are you hoping hte club renames itself to Estevao FC, glad your a fanboy.

In terms of result, yes, delighted with a point down to 10 men at home - we didnt lose and our league position is maintained and we get to continue putting pressure on the Gooners going into the Xmas season) Clearly I watched the match with my eyes open as I saw him balloon the chance... It was so bad I laughed out loud.... It led me to posting here that he isnt the finished artilce that you have taken so personally, its a little tragic.

I dont think he was our best player first half, Caicedo was until he was sent off. That's the reason Arsenal looked nullified in midfield.

Neto didnt track his man and neither did any of the defenders tasked with keeping the ball out of the net. It was a horror show goal to concede and I point the finger at Sanchez for not catching or punching a ball that was headed about 2 feet inside the six yard box. You want to blame Neto for it go for it but I doubt Estevao would have done much differently either but perhaps he might as you clearly think hes the messiah...

"lay off the insults" whilst starting your post calling people melts haha victim mentality.

Once again confirming you judged his half on one shot rather than everything else. More chances created than every other player on the pitch combined but BlueLightning watched him fluff a shot so he was sh*t.

Got it.

 

[bluelightening]

"lay off the insults" whilst starting your post calling people melts haha victim mentality.

Once again confirming you judged his half on one shot rather than everything else. More chances created than every other player on the pitch combined but BlueLightning watched him fluff a shot so he was sh*t.

Got it.

You enjoy arguing with people on here, fair enough. Also fair to say you attack the poster not the subject matter, in fact you go conspicuously quiet when Ive stated a number of reasons as to why I dont think he was the best player on the park... Ive cited Caicedo as my number one for the 45 before he was sent off.

Perhaps im on a different planet, maybe ive played and watched the wrong game for 20 years, and perhaps you could tell me the basics, but last time i watched football it was goals that won games not chances created. Do tell me if im wrong, but I think according to you Chelsea is second in the league because of the chances theyve created or because of the points they've accumulated. I understand you right...

There is no doubt Estevao will win us matches, but he didnt against Arsenal and I think you're upset he got substituted. Got it.

Im going to enjoy the game tonight, I hope Estevao finds his shooting boots and we get 3 POINTS... Couldnt give a toss about chances created, I do give a toss about the goals we score or concede, got it? ;-)

 

[All Barco no bite]

You enjoy arguing with people on here, fair enough. Also fair to say you attack the poster not the subject matter, in fact you go conspicuously quiet when Ive stated a number of reasons as to why I dont think he was the best player on the park... Ive cited Caicedo as my number one for the 45 before he was sent off.

Perhaps im on a different planet, maybe ive played and watched the wrong game for 20 years, and perhaps you could tell me the basics, but last time i watched football it was goals that won games not chances created. Do tell me if im wrong, but I think according to you Chelsea is second in the league because of the chances theyve created or because of the points they've accumulated. I understand you right...

There is no doubt Estevao will win us matches, but he didnt against Arsenal and I think you're upset he got substituted. Got it.

Im going to enjoy the game tonight, I hope Estevao finds his shooting boots and we get 3 POINTS... Couldnt give a toss about chances created, I do give a toss about the goals we score or concede, got it? ;-)

You're the one calling people melts, nowhere have i got personal with you. A player that received a red card can't be the best player on the pitch. You've also managed to conveniently ignore all the points about Estevao creating more than every other player on the pitch.

How do you think goals are scored? Gold star if you can guess what creating chances leads to...

If its only goals scored that matters then why was Caicedo the best player on the pitch? You create arguments against your own logic.

 

[bluelightening]

You're the one calling people melts, nowhere have i got personal with you. A player that received a red card can't be the best player on the pitch. You've also managed to conveniently ignore all the points about Estevao creating more than every other player on the pitch.

How do you think goals are scored? Gold star if you can guess what creating chances leads to...

If its only goals scored that matters then why was Caicedo the best player on the pitch? You create arguments against your own logic.

I said Caicedo was the best player on the park until the sending off which was in the 38th minute. Pertty much all the first half. You need players like him on the pitch to stop the other sides players scoring right? Football to me is about defending and attacking

Tell me, when you watch football at a ground, do you cheer each chance created or do you celebrate the goal scored from a pass? You do you buddy, im happy for you. Please carry on celebrating the chances created.

Im also delighted Estevoa's chances won us the game against Arsenal in that first half.

✌

 

[All Barco no bite]

I said Caicedo was the best player on the park until the sending off which was in the 38th minute. Pertty much all the first half. You need players like him on the pitch to stop the other sides players scoring right? Football to me is about defending and attacking

Tell me, when you watch football at a ground, do you cheer each chance created or do you celebrate the goal scored from a pass? You do you buddy, im happy for you. Please carry on celebrating the chances created.

Im also delighted Estevoa's chances won us the game against Arsenal in that first half.

✌

So a player is the best on the park regardless of a red card but Estevao can't be the best (regardless of stats) because he missed a single shot? I just want to make sure i'm understanding this nonsense correctly.

Yes, when Hazard used to run through 3 players and create a chance for Morata to inevitably miss i would be off my seat cheering for him. Why, do you sit in silence for the full 90?

Such a weird stance to take when the most magical players we've had (Hazard/Zola) are lauded for their dribbling and chance creation over their goal scoring. Let me guess, you'd rather we had Salah over Hazard?

 

[bluelightening]

So a player is the best on the park regardless of a red card but Estevao can't be the best (regardless of stats) because he missed a single shot? I just want to make sure i'm understanding this nonsense correctly.

Yes, when Hazard used to run through 3 players and create a chance for Morata to inevitably miss i would be off my seat cheering for him. Why, do you sit in silence for the full 90?

Such a weird stance to take when the most magical players we've had (Hazard/Zola) are lauded for their dribbling and chance creation over their goal scoring. Let me guess, you'd rather we had Salah over Hazard?

Wow... really? OK... Cant be arsed to split hair anymore with you. Enjoy being a contrarian with someone else.

We were good offensively because defensively we were excellent, imo, in the first half, that was down to Reece James and Ciacedo (I thought they were the best players on the pitch first 45 - its ok, you think that was Estêvão) locking down their positions and Fofana and Chalobah imposing themselves on the game. Arsenal didnt have an answer to it. The teams defensive shift, a bit like Barca before them, allowed Estevao chances that he missed that you celebrate. You carry on with that.

I dont even know what your asking me about Hazard and Salah. Id have them both. Who wouldnt? Imagine the amount of chances you could celebrate with those two in the same side. Bloody hell, you wouldnt be able to sit down.

Peace...

 

[KonaKai Blue]

Maresca left this kid all on his own playing on the wing against a physical Leeds with no natural right back to help out and give him spacial opportunities.

 

[dkw]

Maresca left this kid all on his own playing on the wing against a physical Leeds with no natural right back to help out and give him spacial opportunities.

So much for him protecting not picking him in the prem was to protect him eh, instead he threw him in against Leeds away in a mid week game with a CB behind him and Enzo "protecting" him from midfield.

 

[Nibs]

Yep, felt sorry for Estevao last night. I know folk were clambering for him to start every game but I kind of though Maresca was getting it right and bringing him through slowly (although he was not giving him enough minutes). So then Maresca decides to play him in a tough away game with a weakened side where a lot of our hopes are pinned on the skinny, 18 year-old and unsurprisingly, he failed to deliver. Neto should have started and then throw him on against weary legs.

Sure it won't effect him as the lad is full of confidence and very talented and hopefully it was all part of the learning curve but it was yet another Maresca f**k-up.