Liverpool v Chelsea (PL) Sat 21st Jan 2023 12:30 GMT

Well if it were me and I was putting together amprojectvdrawingnupon bright young talent,  I wouldn't then be throwing Aubameyang onto the pitch.  Then again looking at the way Liverpool were playing I probably would have played at a higher tempo and rather than having Silva, Badiashile and Kepa doing endless triangles I may well have committed more players forward, and maybe put Fofana out there.

That said I don't want to sound negative about today. Our performance was better than recently and as I said previously you can see glimpses of what we can become. The truth is that both teams currently are bang average mid table sides so a 0-0 draw is probably indicative of where both sides are currently.
So no Aubameyang. And a higher tempo. Who would you use to set the higher tempo for you? And it looks like you don't like like us recycling the ball, just to keep possession. How would you change that?

 
Neither side could afford to lose, so a dull draw is what was ordered, and everyone has something 'positive' to build on. I reckon it's more of a missed opportunity for us than them, it's not usual you get a chance to play against a defence without VVD. We could have tested that defence a lot more, but instead our best chances came from set pieces and didn't really test their GK. Some players are just deprived of confidence, Mount had that chance near the penalty spot on the turn but instead passed the ball, that should have been the moment. Defensively we were largely ok, playing another CD at RB helped, but we got no output from RB offensively. Silva still needed to bail us out a few times, he's player of the season without contest this season. The new sigining looked sharp, just keep fit and we have something to look forward to.  We are a point above Villa, so unless we start winning again, we will be in bottom half soon. In terms of climbing league table, yesterday was a wasted opportunity instead of a point gained.

 
So no Aubameyang. And a higher tempo. Who would you use to set the higher tempo for you? And it looks like you don't like like us recycling the ball, just to keep possession. How would you change that?
I think I have said consistently throughout this season that I dont feel these players are fit enough. Therefore I feel they burn out too quickly. I have also said that general care of the ball has been poor, with far too many touches and negative movements because of poor passing. Often we have been our own worst enemies by sloppily giving away possession.

I think that football is a game of increments, and if you incrementally improve individual aspects of your game then the sum becomes greater than the parts.

So to me it isn't what would I do, who would I put on to suddenly improve us although as i have said i may have gone another route than Aubameyang. I would have been focusing on fitness and conditioning, a better and more stable medical backroom, and a lot more work on use of the ball and our pattern of play over a sustained period of time.

I'll also ignore the note of condescension in the comment that I don't like us recycling the ball for possession only sake and will say that it is a simple triangular movement up the pitch from our own box. Initially they weren't even pressing us so that on a number of occasions Silva or Kepa were just stood still with their foot on the ball. It was breaking down today not, I think, due to a lack of movement, but I think due to an intentional plan to slow the tempo in order to prevent Liverpool and their fans building up a head of steam. This I thought was a mistake as I thought that they were there for the taking today.

Even during this game the commentator,  who I don't overly rate but hey, said that you can see why both sides are where they as there is no discernible pattern to their play, it's all a bit chaotic..

 
No idea how anyone can view that performance today in a negative light. We didn’t dominate but if any team deserved to win it was us. 

Always a tough place to go regardless of injuries. We didn’t let them play how they’d like to play, and defensively we were excellent I thought, we didn’t ever really look in danger of conceding. 

Offensively we could have made better decisions, Havertz, Mount, Gallagher, Ziyech, Chucky all had decent scoring opportunities but wasted them. 

Overall feeling really encouraged by the performance and feels like it could be a turning point. If we can kick on from that I’d be really interested to see what the rest of the season looks like. 
I don't think there is anything negative about today. I still think we are shot shy and kept slipping over in critical positions. I am also frustrated as this has been a graveyard for us for so many years and I genuinely felt with a bit more belief and intent we could have and should have won this game. I don't remember a single shot of power from them that Kepa had to save.

On the positive side you can see the shoots of a possible relationships developing between the young players and from their respective  first showings both marquee signings, Felix and Mudryk look class

 
I think I have said consistently throughout this season that I dont feel these players are fit enough. Therefore I feel they burn out too quickly. I have also said that general care of the ball has been poor, with far too many touches and negative movements because of poor passing. Often we have been our own worst enemies by sloppily giving away possession.

I think that football is a game of increments, and if you incrementally improve individual aspects of your game then the sum becomes greater than the parts.

So to me it isn't what would I do, who would I put on to suddenly improve us although as i have said i may have gone another route than Aubameyang. I would have been focusing on fitness and conditioning, a better and more stable medical backroom, and a lot more work on use of the ball and our pattern of play over a sustained period of time.

I'll also ignore the note of condescension in the comment that I don't like us recycling the ball for possession only sake and will say that it is a simple triangular movement up the pitch from our own box. Initially they weren't even pressing us so that on a number of occasions Silva or Kepa were just stood still with their foot on the ball. It was breaking down today not, I think, due to a lack of movement, but I think due to an intentional plan to slow the tempo in order to prevent Liverpool and their fans building up a head of steam. This I thought was a mistake as I thought that they were there for the taking today.

Even during this game the commentator,  who I don't overly rate but hey, said that you can see why both sides are where they as there is no discernible pattern to their play, it's all a bit chaotic..
Personally I don't think lack of match fitness is a major problem. However, a lack of athleticism, strength and physicality particularly in midfield is. An example here.  Jorginho is match fit. But Strong, physical, athletic? 

Care and use of the ball. You quote triangular interplay between Silva and Kepa. And yet to be an attacking force where does the ball go from there? How does it get moved forwards? Surely a midfield presence, a link, a forward creative passer, a runner has to be crucial in that role. Did we have that today? I'd say no. If you think we did I'd like you to tell me where.

 
Personally I don't think lack of match fitness is a major problem. However, a lack of athleticism, strength and physicality particularly in midfield is. An example here.  Jorginho is match fit. But Strong, physical, athletic? 

Care and use of the ball. You quote triangular interplay between Silva and Kepa. And yet to be an attacking force where does the ball go from there? How does it get moved forwards? Surely a midfield presence, a link, a forward creative passer, a runner has to be crucial in that role. Did we have that today? I'd say no. If you think we did I'd like you to tell me where.
No, exactly. I think you are actually endorsing my point. There are many contrasting  opinions on this forum about Jorginho, but one thing surely everyone can agree upon is that Jorginho will always drop into the hole ahead of the defence to start moving us through the lines. Too often that didn't happen today. It would go Silva to Badiashile, back to Silva, back to Kepa and so on. On the few occasions when Jorginho did drop into the hole and pushed it out to Chalobah, it would invariably be passed back to Sila again.

Some of this undoubtedly is due to a lack of movement as well as a lack of confidence  in the players on the ball resulting in them playing safe. Notwithstanding this I still got the overriding impression that we were intentionally trying to draw the tempo out of the game. Historically I think this has been a reasonable tactic because its been a graveyard but today, God they were ripe for the taking.

 
No idea how anyone can view that performance today in a negative light. We didn’t dominate but if any team deserved to win it was us. 

Always a tough place to go regardless of injuries. We didn’t let them play how they’d like to play, and defensively we were excellent I thought, we didn’t ever really look in danger of conceding. 

Offensively we could have made better decisions, Havertz, Mount, Gallagher, Ziyech, Chucky all had decent scoring opportunities but wasted them. 

Overall feeling really encouraged by the performance and feels like it could be a turning point. If we can kick on from that I’d be really interested to see what the rest of the season looks like. 
Aye, we should have won.

 
I am starting to believe that Potter actually coaches out any attacking threat from these players.  They don't have a shot in them. It is not surprising that the two best players I have seen recently have been Felix and Mudryk, both of which have hardly trained with us.

Potter has always been like this though. His teams never score goals. That's why they were happy with a sh*t player like Danny Welbeck, cos he can't coach finishing anyway. 

I thought Mudryk looks quality, providing we don't ruin him. There are the faintest glimmers that some of these youngsters could look really good in the future. Not many players played poorly so that is a step in the right direction, but I did think we were so overly cautious. I doubt we will have a better chance to beat them up there for a few years to come now.
We haven't had a clinical attack since Costa left us, I'm not sure how its all been Potters fault since then!?  How do you 'coach out' an attacking threat?  Maybe if we had a couple of half decent strikers our 'attacking threat' would improve, I'm as much a Premier League striker as Havertz is.

 
No idea how anyone can view that performance today in a negative light. We didn’t dominate but if any team deserved to win it was us. 

Always a tough place to go regardless of injuries. We didn’t let them play how they’d like to play, and defensively we were excellent I thought, we didn’t ever really look in danger of conceding. 

Offensively we could have made better decisions, Havertz, Mount, Gallagher, Ziyech, Chucky all had decent scoring opportunities but wasted them. 

Overall feeling really encouraged by the performance and feels like it could be a turning point. If we can kick on from that I’d be really interested to see what the rest of the season looks like. 
There are posters on here that won't consider it a 'good performance' until we start beating Man City by 4 or 5 clear goals every time we play them, probably supporters that have only 'known' us since the turn of the century and have therefore built up unreasonable 'expectations'.  And until we thrash everybody we play they will continue harping on about 'sacking' Potter!

Today's performance was pretty good, I think we were the 'better' team, perhaps we should have won but a draw is a good result, it means we picked up one point more than Manchester City did when they went there - this season Liverpool's home record reads played 16, won 10, drawn 4, lost 2.

 
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There are posters on here that won't consider it a 'good performance' until we start beating Man City by 4 or 5 clear goals every time we play them, probably supporters that have only 'known' us since the turn of the century and have therefore built up unreasonable 'expectations'.  And until we thrash everybody we play they will continue harping on about 'sacking' Potter!

Today's performance was pretty good, I think we were the 'better' team, perhaps we should have won but a draw is a good result, it means we picked up one point more than Manchester City did when they went there - this season Liverpool's home record reads played 16, won 10, drawn 4, lost 2.
 My criticism is not that we didn’t win, but rather that we didn’t score. Not only can’t you win without scoring but you are in constant danger of losing to one good opposition attack or some stupid mistake. 

gallagher scored 8 pl goals last season, Auba scored goals last season,, Mount scored 11 premier league goals last season, but only 3 so far this time. Havertz scored 8  pl goals last season and with leverkusen a goal every second game. 

ziyech scored 4 pl goals last season and none this season and was prolific in the Erdiisie. 
 

you have to ask why are they all scoring less this season? Is it because we don’t have the wing backs to  drag defenders away, or is it just the lack of Kante? Or is it something todo with the manager?

 
As for unreasonable expectations, you are joking aren't you. What is a reasonable expectation for one of the most valuable football clubs in the world (no 8 according to Forbes) ? A club that has spent a gross US$ 500 m on players since the transfer to the Boehly consortium

I'll tell you what, it's not 10th in the premier league with just 22 goals scored after 20 games. 

No one reasonably expects us to win everything or even anything every season but it is reasonable to expect deep cup runs and in or at least close to top 4 in the league. indeed we want to have a shot at winning the league, that is the expectation for Chelsea and something I think is shared by management and supporters alike. 

It is an unreasonable expectation that anyone will look at the money spent and the quality of players and settle for mid table mediocrity. Brighton are having a fantastic season, but not one that would on average be good enough for Chelsea in today's world.

 
As for unreasonable expectations, you are joking aren't you. What is a reasonable expectation for one of the most valuable football clubs in the world (no 8 according to Forbes) ? A club that has spent a gross US$ 500 m on players since the transfer to the Boehly consortium

I'll tell you what, it's not 10th in the premier league with just 22 goals scored after 20 games. 

No one reasonably expects us to win everything or even anything every season but it is reasonable to expect deep cup runs and in or at least close to top 4 in the league. indeed we want to have a shot at winning the league, that is the expectation for Chelsea and something I think is shared by management and supporters alike. 

It is an unreasonable expectation that anyone will look at the money spent and the quality of players and settle for mid table mediocrity. Brighton are having a fantastic season, but not one that would on average be good enough for Chelsea in today's world.
You are right, somehow our standard has dropped so low, not losing is counted as a positive, and anything above that is unreasonable expectation. Even during Lampard's first season we had higher expectation that now, and that was a season with no transfer business. We used to laugh at Arsenal for celebrating the 4th spot trophy, we will have a 10th spot street party based on our recent standard and expectation.

 
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From the official club site.
 


 
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Look, it was better. Still has a feel of two points dropped as Liverpool were awful for 70 odd minutes. Again the lack of a proven predator upfront killed us. Kai, god bless him for that goal, isn't a lone striker. He's not even a striker. I'm still trying to work out where he fits, and the longer it takes me the more inclined I am to just say he doesn't.... He makes Kerry Dixon look industrious (for those that remember), but unlike King Kerry he has no hope of a solid 20+ goals a season. Maybe time to move him back to Germany and cut our losses. He'd still command some kind of fee as a young German international, money which we could spend on a proper poacher. I'm seriously still wondering how water tight Toney's contract is. Worth testing. Anyway Muddy looked the business and am looking forward to seeing more, has a bit of Eden about him. Ziyech played pretty well too, but Silva remains PL royalty. What a player! Can we not spend the next 100mil on a cloning machine Todd? TTFN.

 
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We haven't had a clinical attack since Costa left us, I'm not sure how its all been Potters fault since then!?  How do you 'coach out' an attacking threat?  Maybe if we had a couple of half decent strikers our 'attacking threat' would improve, I'm as much a Premier League striker as Havertz is.
This I kind of agree with as well, which I concede isn't only down to Potter, it's this possession for possession sake football that we have developed over the years. The coaching out a goal threat was a light hearted comment but based upon the premise that we seem to focus our efforts so much in retaining possession and recycling the ball that nobody seems to have the stones to attack the goal and the finishing, which as you say has been woeful for some time, seems to have got worse. We just don't ever seem to shoot.

Hopefully Mudryk will have a bit more of a direct threat and will shoot more.

 
Like watching paint dry. From both teams. I suppose the positive is that we were the gloss and they were the undercoat but still. Thiago Silva has a painting of himself in his attic. When he came here we were worried that he could start every other game. Now he's first name on the teamsheet every game and he's applied to change his name to Benjamin Button. Midfield was better, although it was probably more down to the opposition being rubbish, and our plethora of wingers should ensure, should we ever sign a striker, that the goals will come sooner or later.

 
In short, yesterdays game was a "better" performance, 1. We didn't lose, 2. we looked decent at the back and 3. Both Badiashille and Mudryk look to be made for the Premier League. But, as has been mentioned elsewhere, without goals, you cannot win games and we are sadly and massively lacking in that department. Looking at the £millions we have spent on players since Boehly came in, we have bought wingers galore, defenders and attacking midfielders, but seriously, how is it that nobody at the Club has told Boehly that GOALS WIN GAMES and that our primary weakness is a lack of them ??? Until we get a predatory six yard box finisher, not much will change and my much mentioned CM with real leadership skills, strength and a pair of bo**ocks, is still nowhere to be seen, despite the huge number of new arrivals. 

Don't expect things to change too much too soon my friends.

 
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