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The headhunters?

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blizeH said:
It's quite depressing to see so many people on here sticking up for this lot - sure they're racist thugs who travelled the country looking for a fight, but as long as they support Chelsea it's fine, yeah?
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You havent got a clue, the 86 raids had a black lad nicked along with the so called Headhunters, yet they were supposed to be storm trooping neo nazis, yeah righto.

 
Fact of the matter is football violence was a youth culture that started in the mid 60s though there is reports of various clubs having crowd trouble way back in the 20s & 30s, in the book The History of Leicester City FC, there's a report of 5 Chelsea fans being arrested outside the Filbert St ground for drunken behaviour, not exactly violence but a crime that is classed as a form of hooligism.

Football mobs were no different to Mods & Rockers/Punks & Skins ect running amock in seaside towns, lets also not forget for years & years different regiments in our armed forces have had tear ups over the years while on leave, young men fighting has always gone on & always will be it outside a club on a sat night or outside a football ground.

Now i'm not saying thats acceptable but its amost a part of our culture just like getting smashed on a weekend is to us English/Brits compare us to other parts of Europe & they cant believe how much we drink.

FV was a lot worse in the 70s & 80s where alot more innocents got caught up in it be it in a town centre or in a ground, i myself saw plenty of it at CFC in the early 80s, as soon as it went underground so to speak it made it more violent for those involved but also a bit more safer for joe public.

I've had my moments swapping scarves with rival fans & albeit on a small scale compared to others, there isnt a buzz like it, ask anyone who has also dabbled, you still get a buzz from talking about past events even if they happened 20+yrs ago, i dont mean just the fighting but the whole day be it taking over a pub, an end, a town whatever there's no different to us fans getting a buzz when we used to turn up at a ground somewhere & find that CFC have packed out the away end no matter how sh*t the team was,obvioulsy some of you will think what the f@ck is he on, but look at it like this, some people choose to jump out of a plane at 20,000 feet for the buzz others choose jump off a cliff while tied to an elastic rope, i know what i prefer & it doesnt involve jumping out or off of anything, fv is a criminal act & is a mugs game now with the sentences dished out & unless i had no choice would never get involved again as its just not worth it anymore.but there's no doubt it has been a part of our history & i wouldnt change it for the world.

I've tried to be as honest as i can & hopefully some of you will understand where i'm coming from.

 
Tribute to the late BLACK Arsenal face Denton left by those racist Chelsea Headhunters at his funeral.

flowers.jpg


 
BlueBeard said:
If you'd seen the way the police behaved back in the old days, you wouldn't feel any sympathy for them getting hurt. They'd arrest fans for nothing, then beat them up in the cells. They used their horses to trample fans (not just hooligans, either), an extremely dangerous thing to do, but they got away with it because football fans were regarded as the lowest of the low. Again, not just hooligans, but all football fans.

I've a lot of time for the police in general these days, they've got a thankless task - but back in the day the coppers who were on duty at football matches were total c*nts.
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Back in the day,as a younger lad,I always went to matches (home or if I could afford it,away) by myself.

In all honesty,I was always more scared of the fuzz & what strokes they could pull,then any other team's mob.

This was times 10 when watching away games.

Maybe they were bored or something, but I always made sure to avoid eye contact with a copper,(even more so,if he had stripes),just in case!.

In fact,I felt safer when close to a group of Chelsea crew because they wouldn't stand for that 'pick on someone sh*t' quite so easliy as a lone supporter

or small group,would have to.

There really was a case of 'safety in numbers' from Mr Plod back then.

And I still think after all these years,that was just the accepted norm of the period.

I never told my folks any of this at the time as they would probably stop me going to matches if I did!.

To bad if you didn't like it really.

 
Carshalton Blue said:
Fact of the matter is football violence was a youth culture that started in the mid 60s though there is reports of various clubs having crowd trouble way back in the 20s & 30s, in the book The History of Leicester City FC, there's a report of 5 Chelsea fans being arrested outside the Filbert St ground for drunken behaviour, not exactly violence but a crime that is classed as a form of hooligism.

Football mobs were no different to Mods & Rockers/Punks & Skins ect running amock in seaside towns, lets also not forget for years & years different regiments in our armed forces have had tear ups over the years while on leave, young men fighting has always gone on & always will be it outside a club on a sat night or outside a football ground.

Now i'm not saying thats acceptable but its amost a part of our culture just like getting smashed on a weekend is to us English/Brits compare us to other parts of Europe & they cant believe how much we drink.

FV was a lot worse in the 70s & 80s where alot more innocents got caught up in it be it in a town centre or in a ground, i myself saw plenty of it at CFC in the early 80s, as soon as it went underground so to speak it made it more violent for those involved but also a bit more safer for joe public.

I've had my moments swapping scarves with rival fans & albeit on a small scale compared to others, there isnt a buzz like it, ask anyone who has also dabbled, you still get a buzz from talking about past events even if they happened 20+yrs ago, i dont mean just the fighting but the whole day be it taking over a pub, an end, a town whatever there's no different to us fans getting a buzz when we used to turn up at a ground somewhere & find that CFC have packed out the away end no matter how sh*t the team was,obvioulsy some of you will think what the f@ck is he on, but look at it like this, some people choose to jump out of a plane at 20,000 feet for the buzz others choose jump off a cliff while tied to an elastic rope, i know what i prefer & it doesnt involve jumping out or off of anything, fv is a criminal act & is a mugs game now with the sentences dished out & unless i had no choice would never get involved again as its just not worth it anymore.but there's no doubt it has been a part of our history & i wouldnt change it for the world.

I've tried to be as honest as i can & hopefully some of you will understand where i'm coming from.
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Top post mate, you make a great point. I don't condone football violence myself but I can see what the appeal would be.

 
Same as Bluebeard I gave it up when it went swastika shaped at the Bridge and since then it's only been about the football for me, but one of the great myths of the football hooligan thing, not just from a Chelsea point of view, is that those involved were not true fans of their clubs, young blokes have always drunk too much and got involved in scraps, true enough it doesn't happen much at the match anymore but any town centre of a weekend will still see scenes that could have been on the terraces in other times. Football was merely our chosen stage, it involved tribalism and defence of our manors or whatever you'd choose to call it, it's always gone on and likely always will. I'm not defending what me and others on here did, neither would I get involved nowadays but if we weren't doing it at the match you can be pretty sure we would have been doing the same somewhere else, that's life.

 
Not racist at all, as mentioned above. The documentary that Mcinliar did tried to portray his subjects as racist due to their links with C18 but the majority of the original boys were not that extreme.

 
What's the view of others of the start of the rise of the right wing among Chelsea's support? Mine is it coincided with the skinhead revival during the punk era around 1978. London was pretty turbulent around this time with riots at the NF march in Lewisham and then later at an Oi! gig in Southall and the NF saw the skins as a breeding ground, kids who also went to football which not many punks did.

The first time I can remember sieg heiling at a match was Ipswich away where across the barrier separating us Ipswich were chanting "there's only one ginger darkie" who must have been one of their main faces. In response hundreds of Chelsea stuck their right arms up in the air and started sieg heiling but I honestly think it was more of a shock thing than serious fascism, similar to punks wearing nazi armbands. I remember pulling into Cardiff station where the train passed behind the side of their ground and the whole train was hanging out of the windows doing it, the same against Leeds at the end of match pitch invasion where both sets of supporters were at it.

Obviously some went to the extreme but I don't think it was as whole scale as it's made out, mob mentality played a big part.

 
So fighting is fine, as long as you're fighting in the name of a football club? Okay...

 
Sorry if it seems like I'm having a go, I just dont see the appeal myself - though I'm too young to have been involved so maybe that's part of it

 
Bluebeard touches on a key point when he makes reference to the heavy handed policing of the day. Football hooliganism developed probably in the late 60s and early 70s with the middle to later 70s seeing the creation of what became known as the firms. As the 70s gave way to the 80s it became more and more prolific and, for me, there is a connection between this and the fact that, it was an era where social unrest was on the rise. Thatcher delivered onto the streets a police force that delivered justice with an iron rod and breathtaking prejudice. This resulted in further uprising (and not just at football games) as racism spread throughout a police force which has little focus on justice and played a large part in creating a culture of fear and hatred which polarized communities.

This is not meant as an excuse for hooliganism but, as with many cultures (good and bad) that develop in a country, there is a root cause that is far more complex than it initially seems.

Having said all that I am unequivocal in condemning hooligan behaviour and racism throughout football, but not more than I would condemn both in any walk of life. Back in about 2009 I was at the Bridge and we drew 1-1 with Tottenham. Later that evening I was in Fulham Broadway and witnessed a group of pissed up Chelsea fans singing about gas chambers, making Nazi salutes and finishing it all off with a raucous chorus of 'Sieg Heil'.

For me allegiance to a club or fellow fans is inexcusable in the face of that type of ignorance, hatred or intolerance. Rather a good natured Spurs fan as a friend than a Chelsea fan who behaves like that.

 
loz said:
Bluebeard touches on a key point when he makes reference to the heavy handed policing of the day. Football hooliganism developed probably in the late 60s and early 70s with the middle to later 70s seeing the creation of what became known as the firms. As the 70s gave way to the 80s it became more and more prolific and, for me, there is a connection between this and the fact that, it was an era where social unrest was on the rise. Thatcher delivered onto the streets a police force that delivered justice with an iron rod and breathtaking prejudice. This resulted in further uprising (and not just at football games) as racism spread throughout a police force which has little focus on justice and played a large part in creating a culture of fear and hatred which polarized communities.

This is not meant as an excuse for hooliganism but, as with many cultures (good and bad) that develop in a country, there is a root cause that is far more complex than it initially seems.

Having said all that I am unequivocal in condemning hooligan behaviour and racism throughout football, but not more than I would condemn both in any walk of life. Back in about 2009 I was at the Bridge and we drew 1-1 with Tottenham. Later that evening I was in Fulham Broadway and witnessed a group of pissed up Chelsea fans singing about gas chambers, making Nazi salutes and finishing it all off with a raucous chorus of 'Sieg Heil'.

For me allegiance to a club or fellow fans is inexcusable in the face of that type of ignorance, hatred or intolerance. Rather a good natured Spurs fan as a friend than a Chelsea fan who behaves like that.
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Precisely. Well said. That 'Sieg Heil' lot can go f*ck themselves.

 
Peckham Blue said:
What's the view of others of the start of the rise of the right wing among Chelsea's support? Mine is it coincided with the skinhead revival during the punk era around 1978. London was pretty turbulent around this time with riots at the NF march in Lewisham and then later at an Oi! gig in Southall and the NF saw the skins as a breeding ground, kids who also went to football which not many punks did.
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I agree, it seemed to begin with the skinhead 'revival' in the late 70's. The 'skin's' of the late 70's really pissed me off, as they had no real connection with the original skins of the late 60's.

Skins in the late 60's/early 70's weren't racist, listened to reggae, ska & Motown, and dressed stylishly - Ben Sherman, Brutus, Sta-Prest, Squires Brogues, we were the f*ckin' business! A lot of skinhead gangs were multi-racial, and wouid fight anyone who fancied their chances, using just fists and boots, great days.

Generally speaking, the 'skins' of the late 70's were racist, and had no fashion sense at all. I've no idea where the Nazi sh*te came from, but I can say categorically that by no means all Chelsea fans agreed with it or participated in it.

 
BlueBeard said:
I agree, it seemed to begin with the skinhead 'revival' in the late 70's. The 'skin's' of the late 70's really pissed me off, as they had no real connection with the original skins of the late 60's.

Skins in the late 60's/early 70's weren't racist, listened to reggae, ska & Motown, and dressed stylishly - Ben Sherman, Brutus, Sta-Prest, Squires Brogues, we were the f*ckin' business! A lot of skinhead gangs were multi-racial, and wouid fight anyone who fancied their chances, using just fists and boots, great days.

Generally speaking, the 'skins' of the late 70's were racist, and had no fashion sense at all. I've no idea where the Nazi sh*te came from, but I can say categorically that by no means all Chelsea fans agreed with it or participated in it.
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Exactly so why is this being turned into that every hooligan at Chelsea was a neo nazi stormtrooper. Chelsea had loads of different mobs over the years different ages from different areas loads didnt get on with eachother for various reasons. When the headhunters got arrested in 86 1 was a black bod so how can all the headhunters be racist thugs and if the others were such racist thugs why did they have a black bod with them. What about the kilburn lot another hooligan mob at Chelsea they had lots of catholics and blacks in thier mob so you cant say the Chelsea hooligan mob were racist thugs. Id say the rise of the NF in the late 70s and the skinhead scene at the same time plus in the late 70s alot of Chelsea started following England away created the racism but i dont think it was within the Chelsea mob cos you never hear of any black Chelsea lad telling how he was told to f**k off. What bods choose to do away from football was up to them but i think to many people are reading to much bullsh*t in books and PC DONAL MACINTYRE UNCOVERED proves how you can easily be duped. Both got nicked for conspiricy but to conspire you have to talk to the other bod/mob on the phone yet the Leicester bod never answered so they never conspired with anyone yet still got nicked for conspiricy.

 
Peckham Blue said:
What's the view of others of the start of the rise of the right wing among Chelsea's support? Mine is it coincided with the skinhead revival during the punk era around 1978. London was pretty turbulent around this time with riots at the NF march in Lewisham and then later at an Oi! gig in Southall and the NF saw the skins as a breeding ground, kids who also went to football which not many punks did.

The first time I can remember sieg heiling at a match was Ipswich away where across the barrier separating us Ipswich were chanting "there's only one ginger darkie" who must have been one of their main faces. In response hundreds of Chelsea stuck their right arms up in the air and started sieg heiling but I honestly think it was more of a shock thing than serious fascism, similar to punks wearing nazi armbands. I remember pulling into Cardiff station where the train passed behind the side of their ground and the whole train was hanging out of the windows doing it, the same against Leeds at the end of match pitch invasion where both sets of supporters were at it.

Obviously some went to the extreme but I don't think it was as whole scale as it's made out, mob mentality played a big part.
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Agreed it got really bad at that time but there were elements before the late 70's. I am sure "Bulldog" was being sold mid 70's.

 
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Mike 93 said:
My girlfriend keeps telling me to write about football for my dissertation. How did your friend get on with it?
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He enjoyed it (as much as you can enjoy writing a dissertation) - only just handed it in though so I don't know what mark he got.

 
BlueBeard said:
I agree, it seemed to begin with the skinhead 'revival' in the late 70's. The 'skin's' of the late 70's really pissed me off, as they had no real connection with the original skins of the late 60's.

Skins in the late 60's/early 70's weren't racist, listened to reggae, ska & Motown, and dressed stylishly - Ben Sherman, Brutus, Sta-Prest, Squires Brogues, we were the f*ckin' business! A lot of skinhead gangs were multi-racial, and wouid fight anyone who fancied their chances, using just fists and boots, great days.

Generally speaking, the 'skins' of the late 70's were racist, and had no fashion sense at all. I've no idea where the Nazi sh*te came from, but I can say categorically that by no means all Chelsea fans agreed with it or participated in it.
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Agree with most of what you say, style and music were everything. However, imo skins definitely had an anti asian view, at least around where I lived they did. Fists and boots... I remember. Loved my brogues and sta prest. First ska record I bought was "Lets Ska" by the skatalites (i think that was the group).

 
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shedhead said:
Agree with most of what you say, style and music were everything. However, imo skins definitely had an anti asian view, at least around where I lived they did. Fists and boots... I remember. Loved my brogues and sta prest. First ska record I bought was "Lets Ska" by the skatalites (i think that was the group).
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Yeah, don't know how I managed to forget that - a lot of skins went in for "paki-bashing" back then

 
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