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VAR in 2019/20

fester said:
When VAR comes in clear rules need sorting out.  We've just experience two similar incidents handled completely differently in the Carabao Cup semi-final and final.

In the Semi-final:  Kane chases a ball, linesman flags for off-side, play continues, Kane goes down in clash with keeper.  VAR used to review which reverses off-side decision, and gives penalty.

In the final: Hazard chases a ball, linesman flags for off-side, play stopped despite Hazard being clear on goal. 

I'm not getting into which way either decision should have gone, but to me both 'off-side' decision were similar so I would have expected them to be treated the same way using VAR.  I am dubious about VAR, from watching matches on TV there are still so many decision that are not obvious despite numerous camera angles and even the pundits can't agree, it can only work if incidents are unambiguous and in those cases Ref's currently get most of them correct.  However, it is being introduced so we NEED consistency.
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Yup that crossed my mind as soon as the whistle went.

How can they let Kane go on when Hazard can’t? He most likely would have scored from there.

F*cking bullsh*t if you ask me, can’t have one rule for one game and different for another.

What would happen if Hazard took a shot anyway and scored? Would VAR come into play?

 
fester said:
I think Hazard stopped because the ref blew for the offside.
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Well, the official has to realize that it is a close call and that the play needs to continue and if Hazard scores, let VAR review it and overturn or allow the goal. Instead the linesman raises his flag and it kills the play and nothing can be done. I think that's also an issue is that its used here and there and the referees aren't used to allowing play to continue. We saw in the World Cup that close offsides calls where allowed to play out because they knew that if it was offsides VAR would/should catch it.

 
coco said:
A toe offside is not clear and obvious.
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Think we saw that with Aguero's no goal in the final. If that was given as a goal in the run of play, it would've stood up in review as not clear and obvious to overturn. Bc it was damn damn tight

 
Agree with @fester can’t have the same situation dealt with in a different way and get punished both times.

 
I have always said that I like the idea of VAR, I just don't trust the officials to use it properly. I actually think VAR has highlighted how poor the officials are rather than help them out. Even with VAR, they are still making wrong decisions. The decision on Sunday was basic, keep the flag down until play is disrupted. If Hazard scores, then raise your flag if you thought he was offside and VAR can check to see if the linesman was correct.

 
Scott Harris said:
I have always said that I like the idea of VAR, I just don't trust the officials to use it properly. I actually think VAR has highlighted how poor the officials are rather than help them out. Even with VAR, they are still making wrong decisions. The decision on Sunday was basic, keep the flag down until play is disrupted. If Hazard scores, then raise your flag if you thought he was offside and VAR can check to see if the linesman was correct.
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This is the problem, I don’t think it’s being used correctly. I just heard Dermont Gallagher on sky sports saying that the penalty on Rodri, because the referee didn’t think it wasn’t a penalty that VAR can’t intervene. Probably similar to the handball yesterday by Leicester on the edge of the box. Surely the whole point in VAR is that it can pick the things the referee misses up and get the decision right? That was a clear penalty and the referee should have been made aware of that.

As for the new handball rule, my understanding was that it’s supposed to be to avoid events like Sanchez goal for Arsenal where he literally hit the ball over the line with his hand.

 
EdinburghBlue said:
This is the problem, I don’t think it’s being used correctly. I just heard Dermont Gallagher on sky sports saying that the penalty on Rodri, because the referee didn’t think it wasn’t a penalty that VAR can’t intervene. Probably similar to the handball yesterday by Leicester on the edge of the box. Surely the whole point in VAR is that it can pick the things the referee misses up and get the decision right? That was a clear penalty and the referee should have been made aware of that.

As for the new handball rule, my understanding was that it’s supposed to be to avoid events like Sanchez goal for Arsenal where he literally hit the ball over the line with his hand.
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It’s not ‘because the referee didn’t think it was a penalty’, it’s that the referees decision ( not to award one) was not a clear and obvious error. So it can intervene ( if Gallagher said what you think he did then he should learn the rules ). Similar with the handball - the referee probably saw it but decided it did not meet the law to be deemed deliberate . The VAR panel would have reviewed it and may well form the opinion that, actually, had they been there they would have given it but that is still not a clear and obvious error. I was at the game and have not seen the highlights. It’s still a good argument though - why was City’s goal disallowed when , in reality, it could never be argued it was ‘obvious’ ( Sanchez’s was) . The rules seem to sway to the defensive teams side when it should be neutral at best and, arguably, be on the side of the attacking team.

What did annoy me yesterday was the ref’s lack of understanding about the substitution rule change and the player should go off at the nearest point.

 
Crem said:
What did annoy me yesterday was the ref’s lack of understanding about the substitution rule change and the player should go off at the nearest point.
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I think we can cut the ref a bit of slack yesterday. It was his first PL match, he wasn’t expecting to have to referee and the rule is new. He had a decent game considering. 

 
Crem said:
It’s not ‘because the referee didn’t think it was a penalty’, it’s that the referees decision ( not to award one) was not a clear and obvious error. So it can intervene ( if Gallagher said what you think he did then he should learn the rules ). 
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Sorry mate, but anyone with a pair of eyes can see that it is a blatant penalty on Rodri, he was hauled to the ground by the neck. It’s as clear & obvious a penalty as you can get. It’s basically saying that all the decisions that went against us with Overbo wouldn’t be reviewed because the referee didn’t give it in the first instance. I’ll try and dig it out but I am adamant that’s what he said. VAR can’t intervene if the referee doesn’t give the original decision.

 
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EdinburghBlue said:
Sorry mate, but anyone with a pair of eyes can see that it is a blatant penalty on Rodri, he was hauled to the ground by the neck. It’s as clear & obvious a penalty as you can get. It’s basically saying that all the decisions that went against us with Overbo wouldn’t be reviewed because the referee didn’t give it in the first instance. I’ll try and dig it out but I am adamant that’s what he said. VAR can’t intervene if the referee doesn’t give the original decision.
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I haven’t seen the city game so don’t have a view on it but I believe you. My understanding of VAR is that it’s used proactively so if the ref misses a potential penalty they can intervene.  It’s the interpretation of the following I guess ( from the EPL ) :-

“

All penalties awarded in the Premier League will automatically be checked by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR), who will also check for possible penalties not given by the on-field referee.

“

 
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Wolves scored a brilliant goal yesterday against ManU and after it they had VAR checking it for offside for a couple of minutes in a level of centimeters with some graphical guidelines. I really didn't enjoy the moment. Looks like we are in for some embarassing moments with VAR this season.

All in all I'm into VAR but yesterday and particulartly City's disallowed goal against Spurs it looks like VAR needs to chill the f**k out.

 
Crem said:
I haven’t seen the city game so don’t have a view on it but I believe you. My understanding of VAR is that it’s used proactively so if the ref misses a potential penalty they can intervene.  It’s the interpretation of the following I guess ( from the EPL ) :-

“

All penalties awarded in the Premier League will automatically be checked by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR), who will also check for possible penalties not given by the on-field referee.

“
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That’s interesting because to me as you say that reads that they should have identified it was a penalty. Gallagher was obviously mistaken when he said VAR couldn’t intervene. I’d be interested to hear the VAR referees thought process for the decision but I highly doubt we’ll ever get to that stage as referees seem to have protection from justifying decisions.

 
I think the VAR needs to follow that of cricket where each captain could ask VAR ( say one per half). City would have asked VAR for the penalty call and got it, Spurs would have asked for VAR to check everything to get the goal cancelled , kind worked out. The referee and lines people still need to make calls, they can't ask everything to be reviewed or the game be 100 minutes, alternatively if they make an obvious mistake, it's up to the Captain of each team to make noise about it. I don't know whether the referee asked the City goal to be checked, or VAR just got involved because it's the last action of the game. For me, it's wrong if VAR got involved without the referee asking it, because the only purpose in this instance is to scrutinize it and find a way to rule it out.

 
i think the premier league have tried to change rules to make them black and white so VAR an easier time making correct decisions. 

The handball rule should go back to how it was, i agree that goals should be ruled out if the ball goes in the net off an arm, however minor ball to hand incidents in the build up, that wouldnt be called as fouls anywhere else on the field, shouldnt be allowed to stand. 

Offside decisions shouldnt be black and white, i read an article last week that said there is 13cm margin for error even with VAR, because its hard to establish the exact point when a pass it made. 

I think VAR should only overturn a decision if it is clear and obvious in every instance. Ive seen 2 goals chalked off for handball that shouldve stood, and ive seen 3 goals called for offside, that are so marginal, they shouldve been classed as level. What happened to the benefit of doubt going to the attacking teams? 

Im not a fan of VAR at all, i dont like the minute limbo after every goal, where you are wondering whether the celebrations might have been in vein, and i think it takes away some of adrenalin.

Let the refs and the lineman do their jobs, if they make a big f**k up, then overturn it. If its a close call, then go with refs decision. 

 
The new rules and VAR made me think of scenarios where I'm not sure what would happen in a game. I'm probably missing something obvious and have too much time but here it goes...

If the ball accidently brushes off a defender's arm in his own box and breaks to a player who goes the length of the pitch and scores...will the game ever end? Or is it stuck in a VAR loop between not being able to give a pen for the handball at one end or award the goal at the other end because of it?

Has a player ever been sent off for 2 yellow cards during the same passage of play? Is this possible if the advantage rule was played in the first instance? Would the ref be able to play advantage the seond time if possible, or would he have to stop the game to issue the red card i.e. show the yellow twice.

 
Firstly I am thankful that the Refs have stopped going over to the sidelines to watch the enitire game again before making a call, however like a few have mentioned VAR should only intervene on clear and obvious errors & maybe let each team have 1 review per half for a decision which they believe may have gone against them. At the moment there just seems to be this lack of clarity around the involvement of VAR on a game. Play should be allowed to continue and the Ref should make the decision and unless it is obviously incorrect the decision should stand.

In the City & Spurs game it seemed fairly obvious that the Ref was happy with the goal and even the Spurs players had accepted the decision and than VAR got involved which seemed absolutely ludicrous. 

 
DP2 said:
The new rules and VAR made me think of scenarios where I'm not sure what would happen in a game. I'm probably missing something obvious and have too much time but here it goes...

If the ball accidently brushes off a defender's arm in his own box and breaks to a player who goes the length of the pitch and scores...will the game ever end? Or is it stuck in a VAR loop between not being able to give a pen for the handball at one end or award the goal at the other end because of it?

Has a player ever been sent off for 2 yellow cards during the same passage of play? Is this possible if the advantage rule was played in the first instance? Would the ref be able to play advantage the seond time if possible, or would he have to stop the game to issue the red card i.e. show the yellow twice.
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the stupidest part of the new handball rule is if it accidentally hits a defenders arm then thats not a penalty, its only there to rule out a goal if it hits an attackers arm. Its farcical.

 
Oh I'd rather see refs f**k up than have VAR
I'd rather see refs f**k up than have VAR
Rather see refs f**k up
Rather see refs f**k up
Rather see refs f**k up than have VAR
VAR OUT

We all hate VAR and VAR and VAR
VAR and VAR and VAR and VAR 
And VAR and VAR and VAR
We all f**king hate VAR
VAR OUT

VAR is atrocious
Football ain't the same
We're in agreement
That VAR will wreck the game
VAR OUT

 
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