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VAR in 2019/20

Worth reading Johnathan Wilson in the Guardian on last night's VAR shambles:

This was a game whose outcome felt fanciful in the extreme: dramatically speaking, it simply did not convince. It began with Chelsea, Batshuayi in particular, missing chances, which is reasonable enough. The Belgian has had 15 shots this season and scored with one of them, the distillation of a wider problem with finishing at Chelsea; in terms of goals scored, only Watford are underperforming their xG by a wider margin.

There then followed a trio of refereeing/VAR decisions that seemed almost designed to disprove the assumption that it would be a cold, all-seeing eye that dealt only in facts, weighing players in the balance and passing godlike justice. As it turns out, all gods are essentially human in conception and VAR is no different: this deity has a cruel and capricious sense of humour.

Even before any of VAR’s interventions, there was a non-intervention as Willian was booked for diving on the edge of the box. It seemed he had been fouled but because the incident took place a fraction outside the box, VAR was powerless to intervene. Six inches closer to goal and the booking would have been overturned and a penalty awarded. As it was, VAR simply took water, and washed its hands before the multitude and said: “I am innocent of the card to this just person, see you to it.”

Two goals then disallowed, one for a tight but understandable offside, the other for a push by César Azpilicueta that itself seemed the domino effect of a push by Fred – do pushes in the box, like handballs, now matter to a differing degree according to whether they are perpetrated by an attacking or defending player? – weren’t even the end of it. That Harry Maguire should have scored the decisive second having not been sent off for thrusting his boot into the groin of Batshuayi about three feet in front of Lampard – this was within VAR’s jurisdiction, it just chose on this occasion to spare the England defender, reasoning perhaps that by that stage there were several thousand people in the ground who would willingly have clouted the profligate forward amidships – was a devastating coup de grace.
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Everyone hates it, even the people who wanted technology brought in are now realising its not as straight forward as a binary goal line decision, or offside call, which both use beautiful lines to show us its either over the line or behind the line, simple, and easy to be consistent with.

But when you start asking a referee in an office to police the grey areas, from that moment the game actually leaves the whole stadium, and is now being played out in this backwater office. Why does this have to happen this way,when you can have the on-pitch ref decide for himself from the side of the pitch, using the futuristic technology known as a monitor.

 
Yes we got done over last night yet I recall recently where we got lucky with some VAR decisions...might have been Burnley away.

I think playing Bats does not make sense, the sooner he is sent out on loan or waved goodbye the better, Frank's reputation can only fall further by having him as our second striker when we have Giroud.

I've now reviewed a few papers and forums and the opinion is Maguire should have walked for the challenge on Bats.

The ref made another error with Martial's challenge on Christensen by jumping with outstretched arms. Due to the injury and blood why was that not taken to VAR?

 The fact that Azpi was pushed in the build up to Zouma's goal should have allowed this, Clattenburg says a similar event at Norwich should have meant this goal stood.

Watching Willian live last night it looked a penalty to me though now realize he was outside the box, yet a yellow ?

I caught JT speaking after the match and he thought we should have defended their first goal better yet for the second said Rudiger took up the correct position as Maguire was being shielded by a Utd player and when Maguire did move the ball was a perfect delivery for him and not much you can do about that. 

 
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coco said:
Everyone hates it, even the people who wanted technology brought in are now realising its not as straight forward as a binary goal line decision, or offside call, which both use beautiful lines to show us its either over the line or behind the line, simple, and easy to be consistent with.

But when you start asking a referee in an office to police the grey areas, from that moment the game actually leaves the whole stadium, and is now being played out in this backwater office. Why does this have to happen this way,when you can have the on-pitch ref decide for himself from the side of the pitch, using the futuristic technology known as a monitor.
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Good points, but I take issue with this, about the offside line:

simple, and easy to be consistent with.
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There is an inherent flaw with this line, which is caused by deciding when the ball has actually been played. Stopping the film at the precise moment, in order to draw your offside line, is just not that simple, and there is zero forensic analysis done of that precise moment, which is crucial to drawing the offside line.

There is, therefore, a known margin of error (according to this article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7367673/THE-GREAT-VAR-DEBATE-Tech-said-Sterling-2-4cm-offside-allowed-13cm-margin-error.html), which is anything from 13-38cm!!!! This should mean that offside calls that are visibly tight should be ruled 'too close to call', and no goals should be ruled out for margins of, say, 25 cm or less (the mid-point of the 13-38cm margin for error), on the basis that the technology is just not accurate enough.

This would be the equivalent of cricket's 'umpire's call', when - in the case of very marginal LBW decisions - the umpire's original call stands, as the video evidence is not sufficient to overturn it.

 
Arsenal fans are saying we shouldn't be complaining because Jorginho should have been sent off against them

Man United fans are saying we shouldn't be complaining because we scored an offside goal that put us in poll position to win the title a decade ago.

Arsenal fans conveniently forget that Guendozi should have been sent off in the first half in the same game.

Man United fans conveniently forget that Macheda scored from a handball in the same game.

Twats.

 
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No if's or but's, the use VAR in it's current form IS ruining the game we all love.

Goals being scored but subsequently ruled out because of a stray toe or elbow - it's bo**ocks. Change the rule now - make it there has to be daylight between attacker and defender, otherwise he's onside. How difficult is that?

Such a good idea but so badly utilized. What do we all watch football for and enjoy most about the game? To see your team score and then get lost in the frantic celebrations. How can it be right that fans no longer feel able to celebrate goals because everyone has an eye on VAR intervening. The single most important thing about the game has almost been taken away. Think of some of the great moments in the past that these days would be ruined by VAR - it's scandalous. If it carries on as it is, it won't be long before a massive VAR clanger causes a riot. Supporters deserve better and if they don't get it we should all boycott the game until they sort it. Honestly feel that strongly about it.

 
The technology of VAR isn't ruining the game..... it's the complete and utter atrocity of the human decision making involved with VAR ruining the game....... So it's the R ruining it I guess, not the VA.....so, same story as before VAR and hence the push for VAR.

All the current VAR roll out has done is introduce another layer of officials who are making clear and obvious mistakes with little to no accountability from all appearances.

Except now they are making mistakes despite having video replays of the incidents and time to judge it from multiple situations.

There is no excuse for the complete lack of consistency.... the only excuse for inconsistency for on field refs (competent ones, anyways) is they don't always get a good view.,,,,, that's rarely if ever the problem with VAR.

At the very least these officials should have press duties after every match to explain any decisions they overturned/took........if their mandate is only to correct clear and obvious mistakes, and leave everything else to the on field official, I struggle to see a single reason why VAR officials shouldn't be willing and able to explain when they intervene......or in certain situations, why they didn't.

 
So, anyone still think var is a good idea? 

 
dkw said:
So, anyone still think var is a good idea? 
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in other countries, including the one I live Var is used correctly. It's the English stubborness that prevents VAR from working in the EPL. BTW incase anyone hasn't heard:


 
I've never liked it and never wanted it. Even after a game with a refereeing performance like Ovrebo's I didn't want it.

However football fans as a collective have asked for this sh*te. There isn't a set of fans in the world who don't believe they get the worst of the decisions. Its human nature that we remember the ones that go against us and forget the ones we get the benefit of it and that continues to this day.

Earlier this season people on here were up in arms about VAR then we got some going our way and, what a surprise, it all went quiet. Now it has gone against us and everyone is up in arms again.

Does anyone think it is any different on the forum of any other club?

If you want less mistakes then VAR works and you should embrace it and live with the fact there is no perfect solution.

If you want to enjoy the game more then you should want rid of it and live with the fact there will be more mistakes, some you get the benefit of and some you don't.

But either way fans really need to give up on this fixation that their club is victimised and its all part of a great scandalous conspiracy!

 
Absolutely still want it ... it just needs to be used better ...

I'd be in favour of pitch side monitors for the use of the match officials, and also for each team to have X number of "reviews" per half, similar to cricket and tennis implementation of technology, which works very well.

The big issue though is not the technology it is the standard of the referees, whether on the pitch or in the studio looking at monitors.  Maybe more effort needs to be made to get ex players to become match officials, as happens in cricket.

 
we need more people like this saying that the implementation of the FA/English Referring Association is wrong on how VAR is handled. I still don't understand why Michael Oliver didn't walk over to the monitor to see what Lo Celso did. IMHO Dave was lucky not to suffer a broken leg.

 
See, my issue with today's farce was this.

It's not so much that I think that they got the decision wrong (although I think they did) - it was an incident which was up for interpretation and I can understand the arguments both ways. VAR or not, these are ultimately humans who are making the decisions, they are going to have their own perspective on matters, and often that perspective is going to differ from mine. That's fine - these things happen.

It's not so much that they later in the game admitted they were wrong.* These people are going to make mistakes; people are liable and entitled to change their opinions, and (to quote whatever drooling moron was commentating with Glenn Hoddle) there is something "commendable" to admitting when you are at fault. I can just about stomach this, plus it would be entirely ridiculous and arbitrary to send off a player thirty minutes after the fact.

The issue for me is that after reviewing the incident, and concluding that Lo Celso was guilty of violent conduct, they are unable to retrospectively punish him because they got it wrong in the first place! Retrospective bans for violent conduct have, according to this, been the standard since 2013, whether the officials simply missed an incident, or decided at the time not to award a foul. The intervention of VAR, the entire purpose of which is to serve as a safety net for precisely this sort of situation, has actively prevented the right course of action from being taken, both at the time and retrospectively.

In short - before this season, the referee would have made his decision not to award a foul/card for Lo Celso's challenge on Azpilicueta. Upon review, this would have been deemed incorrect, and the appropriate retrospective suspension for violent conduct would have been applied. The simple intervention of VAR, the system designed to catch things the on-pitch officials have missed, are unsure about, or have got wrong, has prevented this from happening.

What a complete and total fiasco.

* Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think a mid-match admission of error is unprecedented since VAR was introduced?

 
Call me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist but this season they've used VAR to help the dippers win the title and pin us back as a result of the title race being over already, they want a hot top 4 race.

It's impossible that 90% of decisions go to fit these agendas, meanwhile in the CL we seem to benefit more. Why always me???

 
Two matches in a row where VAR disgraced us...does a Chelsea player have to get injured before we can lodge a formal complaint?

 
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